Hey, all.  Let me know if this is the right board for this thread.  I was talking to a member last night (can't remember his name-dang it but he runs an 88 Zuk with an 8 inch lift...  ) and he told me about this site.  Cool... Anyway, we were talking about how easy it would be to do a 4x4 conversion to my stock 2 wheel drive 92 Geo.  It has the standard 1.6 L VIN U 8 valve motor and a 5 speed manual tranny.   I've always wished it was a 4 wheel, but it isn't.  What's the good word?

~Brad

hopefully inphobic will chime in here.

all i can say is 4 wheel drive = good
 

Welcome to KCZUKS, Brad!

You'll need a Tranny, T-case, Front axle, Front driveshaft, and Locking hubs.
You may also have to add one or both front axle drop bracket hangers onto the frame.
Its a fairly easy conversion because the chassis is the same on the 2wd and 4wd models.

We have a limited number of Geo/Tracker owners here.  I'd recommend that you do a search on each of the national/international forums where there are thousands of users and answers to most tech questions of this sort.
http://www.kczuks.com/forum/index.php/topic,8.0.html

You might PM Chris (hereticzuk) at Zuwharrie.  He's a automotive tech who has done this to his rig, and has offered to give advice to others.

Thanks, Phoenix!  I PMed hereticzuk over at Zuwharrie to see what he had to say.   

post his answer here   please.

or better yet ask him to post it here !


thanks
id like to know!

I sent you an Email
            Chris          not gary

you got it !   he brought your name up and i would like to pick your brain also. 

appreciate taking the time to check in on another forum.

Ok, like Chris (NOT Gary  ) said, he sent me an E-mail.

"you will need the following:
trans-transfercase together+crossmember
both drive shafts
front halfshafts(cv)
front aluminum diff housing and the 3 mounts that are attached
front and rear shocks/struts and springs(cause they are longer)
both front steering knuckle assemblies with hubs and lockouts
and the driverside bracket from donor tracker

once you get and install this stuff the rest just bolts in. there is also a 4x4 conversion list believe it or not in the chilton suzuki; samurai/sidekick/tracker 1986-98 repair manual part#66500 page 7-50 and a small article about it. if you dont' have this book you will need it."

I think the parts list mostly confirms what Phoenix said. 

I have a Haynes, but not a Chiltons.  I will double check the Hayne's to see if it has that parts list.

My main goal now is to figure out how easy these parts will be to come by and how much $$ I am looking at.  It may be a hard sell to my wife    lol

I do also have a clarification on the parts list.  "front and rear shocks/struts and springs(cause they are longer)"
You mean rear shocks like the ones on the back wheels?  I'm trying to figure out how they would be affected.  Will my ride-height change? 

I tried to attach the picture of the Driver's side bracket which needs to be welded on, but I got an error saying the upload folder was full.  Maybe one of you knows what to do about that.

~Brad

Also...  This is part of an E-mail reply I sent back to Chris.  I am posting it here so the conversation can hopefully continue on the board for the benifiit of everyone.   

"Can you tell me if there is a significant difference in the gear reduction ratios between the 2w and 4d tranny?  I was talking to a guy the other day about his 88 4WD Zuk and he said he has to push it to go interstate speeds.  I don't know if he is stock though or if he had after market gears for a larger reduction.  I would definatley want to retain highway drive-ability."

Welcome to KCZUKS, Chris, not gary!   Thanks for stopping by and setting us straight! 

whats up Flea, whats on your mind.

I assume you are asking about 2 door trackick and 4 door trackick trannys?  It comes down to what engine is used in front of the tranny....not whether it is in a 2 door or 4 door, or whether it is a 2wd or 4wd. 
The trackick 5 speed tranny ratios are identical, EXCEPT for certain 5th gear ratios....few people know about this.  The 5th gear ratio in the 5 speed trannys used behind the 16V engines is .795.  The 5th gear ratio in the 5 speed trannys used behind the 8V engine is .86.
For samurai's....the 5th gear ratio is .795 for the 86-88s.....5th gear ratio is .865 for the 88.5-95s.
The trackick auto tranny ratio's are the same....no matter if it is 2 door, 4 door, 8V, 16V, 2wd, or 4wd.  Of course, there is a 3 speed auto and a 4 speed auto (with OD).  The 4 speed auto is computer controlled....so it is not easily swapped into a trackick that did not originally come with a 4 speed auto.

I knew i recommended  the right person(skyhiranger ) for the rest of the info on your swap Brad.

Wow, you guys are full of info! 

So in regards to the Samurai's, you say they were .795 '86-'88 and .865 '88.5 - 95.... Did the Samurai's use 16 valve engines in 86-88 and go to 8 valve engines the later half of 88 (seems unlikley) or are you saying that the Samurai's tranny ratios are based off year only and engine has nothing to do with it?

Now, I am dealing with a 92 Tracker, 5 speed manual behind a 1.6 Liter Vin type U 8 valve engine.  That would mean that my tranny ratio in 5th gear is .865, right? 
So, here's the question-- setting ratios aside for a moment, WHICH 4x4 trannies are compat with my tracker first off.  I assume obviously that a 4x4 tracker obviously.  What years though.  It seems 88-94 are all pretty similar as far as engine parts.  Also what about Zuk or Sammy 4x4 trannies?  Will one of those work just the same on my tracker? 
The same question really goes for all my donor parts-- how interchangable am I, and with that years?

Also, let's say I find a salvage yard or some guy with a trackick tranny in his garage but they don't know where it came from.  How can I determine the 5th speed ratio?  Is there a serial number I can reference.  Obviously I can't count gear teeth without looking inside it. 

So many questions... I will let you guys start with those.  I feel like hittin Ebay to see what's out there tonight...

Yeah, but you can put it in gear and count the revolutions. 

Hmm, never thought of that.  I guess I figured it wouldn't be very easy to tell the difference between .795 and .865. 
If understand that correctly it means that in 5th gear, one full revolution of the input shaft would result in slightly less than one revolution of the output shaft.  Is that right?

I guess you could turn the input shaft 10 revs and see if the output rotated 7.9 or 8.6 times.  Still seems tricky.

Sorry, I kinda got carried away with the info and added some that isn't real relevant to your situtation.  Let me try to clear things up a bit.....

All 86-95 samurai's had a 1.3 8V engine.  86-89 were carbed.  90-95 were fuel injected.
Tranny ratios, therefore, are based off of year, and have nothing to do with the engine.

Your current tranny ratio in 5th is .86.
Any tracker or sidekick 4x4 tranny (89-98) is compatable with your engine (no matter whether it came from one with a 1.6L, 8V or a 1.6L, 16V engine....the blocks are the same).  The only sidekick/tracker tranny that would not be a direct bolt up to your engine, would be the ones that came behind a select few 89 sidekicks that had a 1.3L, 8V, CARBED engine (these are very rare and highly unlikely you will ever see one in your life).  FYI, 99.9% of trackicks have fuel injected engines.....either TBI (8V engines) or MPFI (16V engines).

No, samurai trannys are not directly swappable with trackick trannys.  For one, the samurai's use a divorced tcase (not mounted directly on the back of the tranny, like on the trackicks).  Secondly, the samurai bellhousing is not the same size as the trackicks, so an adapter will have to be used to mate a samurai tranny behind a trackick engine.  Bottom line on samurai trannys....don't even bother to try to use one, in your situtation.

As mentioned, use the "put it in 5th gear and spin the input shaft and check to see how far the output shaft turns" method.  For an .86 ratio, the input shaft will turn .86 revolutions for every one turn of the output shaft.  For a .795 ratio, the input shaft will turn .795 revolutions for every one turn of the output shaft.  There are no physical markings/differences in the different ratio trannys, that I am aware of, to verify which ratio 5th the tranny has.

Physically, the majority of drivetrain parts are interchangelable between the 89 thru 98 trackicks.  There are some electrical type parts that are not.  If you want to know about a specific part, just ask.

Hopefully, that cleared up some of the confusion.

Man so man options, so little time and money.   

Thinking about this has been makng me think about doing an engine swap, which is an idea I have toyed with for a long time but never taken too seriously.  If I was to swap, I would want to go to a larger engine-- probably a v6 or something.  Of course, that would yank me out of the friendly world of bolt-on and into the world of fabrication. 
I've got to admit, my favorite engine swap idea would involve an aluminum block V8 I have out in my garage.  It is a 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire 215.  Pretty small, but powerful.  The bare block weighs about 50 pounds.  It was the first production engine to be turbocharged AND get one HP per CI.   

Man, you don't know how many times I've dreamed of cramming that thing under my hood.  I can even get block hugger headers from aluminumv8.com and if I relocated the radiator it just might fit.  Of course, then I'd be looking at a completely different tranny and beefier rear-end. 

Oh, well-- back to reality, but I guess everyone has to have an out-there dream.   

If you want a 4x4, your best/cheapest/easiest option is adding a 4x4 5 speed tranny with tcase and associated 4x4 parts.  Then you just need to decide if you want the .86 5th gear or the .795 5th gear.  My opinion....stick with a tranny with the .86 5th.....especially if you plan on putting on bigger and/or heavier tires.  I would say the 8V engine would be marginal trying to pull a .795 5th gear with just stock tires.

Well, that's the thing.  I didn't think a stock tracker tranny could hold that much HP and if I went with a larger engine I would be forced to upgrade trannies too which would probably have me borrowing from a Heep or something.  Not to mention the need for bell-housing adapdations.   

What's the stock HP of my 1.6 L 8 valve?  70? 80? 90?

My problem with every project of mine, is I figure if I'm going to sink some time into I might as well go all the way, but then I end up in large project that is hard to finish.  Look no further than my garage for proof of that.  Literally.  I started jacking the whole thing off the foundation because I couldn't stand hanging shelves on wall with the foundation not level.  Now I am waist keep in the project of leveling the dang thing (one corner was 11 inches lower than the opposite one) and I still haven't finished hanging my shevling.  lol   

Gosh, I kill myself.  *sigh*

~Brad

I would agree, that if you were going to do an engine swap, the best thing to do would be to use the tranny that came behind your replacement engine....that way you know it will hold the HP and there is no engine to tranny adaptions that need to be done.

Stock HP on a 1.6, 8V is 80HP.
Stock HP on a 1.6, 16V is 95HP.

I have heard that the auto trannys are rated at around 200HP....but that is just what I have heard, no proof.  So, if that is true, I would think the 5 speeds would be rated the same.....as a general rule, manual trannys are stronger than auto's.